The following transcript was delivered by an energy personality essence known as Elias, who is no longer living but who delivers the information via an energy exchange with a woman named Mary Ennis, or what is more commonly known as ‘channelling’.

For a more in depth explanation please return to my home page.


The SEX Session


Sunday, January 4, 1998 © 1998 (Group) #255
Participants:  Mary (Michael), Vicki (Lawrence), Ron (Olivia), Cathy (Shynla), David (Mylo), Bobbi (Jale), Drew (Matthew), Helen (Jsenne), Dennis (Gaylord), Gail (William), Norm (Stephen), Reta (Dehl), Sue (Catherine), and Don. 

Elias arrives at 6:55 PM. (Time was seventeen seconds)


ELIAS: (To David)  You may open our discussion this evening if you are so choosing, as this be YOUR subject matter.

DAVID:  Well, I think I opened it last week, so I've done it!

ELIAS:  And you are wishing to be knowing of the quality of orgasms?

DAVID:  Correct.

ELIAS:  And their significance to what you view as their non-physical counterpart?

DAVID:  Correct.

ELIAS:  In significance to non-physical counterpart, there is none!

DAVID:  So, it's just a physical....

ELIAS:  All that you present yourself within sexual experience within this dimension is relative to this dimension, although I shall express to you that within physical expressions, you are mirroring elements that are known to you within essence.  You are creating imagery that you insert into your physical focus that mirrors elements within non-physical aspects of essence.  Therefore, within your creation of sexual intimacy, you are creating imagery physically that mirrors a knowing of the lack of separation within essence and consciousness .

DAVID:  So the feeling then ... when somebody says, "Oh, I wonder if heaven is what orgasm is all about?  When we die, heaven is going to feel just like an orgasm all the time!"  (Laughter)  That's where they go!  People go there in their belief system!  This is what I'm trying to find out.

ELIAS:  They are sorely misled!  (Much laughter)

DAVID:  So heaven is not like that at all?

NORM:   It's much better than that, right?  (Laughter)

ELIAS:  First of all, there is no PLACE of heaven.  There is merely all of consciousness, and all of consciousness has no need for orgasmic states; although your state of being and your joyousness within consciousness non-physically focused may be termed to be rapturous.  Therefore, you may compare your state of orgasmic rapture, which you view to be the epitome of the heightened of senses and joyfulness within your physical focus, as very weakly comparable to non-physical elements.  (Pause)

HELEN:  Obviously, a long time ago, through religious factions and different things, we've created a stigma around sex.  Can you explain why we did that?

ELIAS:  This also reinforces your movement into separation from essence.  In your movement throughout your history of becoming more separated in your attention and your forgetfulness of essence for the purity of your experience within this dimension, you also divorce yourself from elements of essence.  Therefore, even within your imagery you create belief systems that shall be separating of you.

In this, you have created belief systems to be placing taboos on sexual activity.  You also create this as another barrier in your lack of remembrance of essence, that there is no gender within essence.  Therefore, to reinforce the purity of the experience within this physical focus -- of emotion and sexual orientation and experiences -- you separate, that you may more fully experience each manifestation of sexual orientation.

HELEN:  I don't understand.  You're saying for the purity of sex, for the purity of the experience, that we ... I don't understand.

ELIAS:  Within essence, there is no gender.  Within essence, there are no taboos.  Within essence, there is no right or wrong.  Within your belief systems that you have created within this dimension, you separate.  Therefore, you separate into creations of genders.  Within your manifestations, in agreeing to participate within this dimension for the sexual experience, you choose to be creating within three manifestations at the least for those experiences: one being male, one being female, one being homosexual.  Within these experiences you have created many belief systems, but these belief systems serve to separate you from the remembrance of essence, therefore allowing you the purity of the experience.  If you are not holding the belief systems of the taboos of homosexuality, for example, you shall not allow yourself the purity of the experience.

Also, you hold belief systems that serve as motivation for you.  If you are being instructed that any element is taboo, it creates an automatic fascination within you.  Therefore, you are motivated to explore.  You move beyond your confines and limitations of duplicity and you allow yourself permission to explore these areas that are taboo.  Although you may be exploring privately and to your thinking secretly, you continue to be motivated to explore.

In an instance that any individual expresses to you, "You may not do this," you shall automatically naturally within you respond with, "I SHALL do this," for within essence you hold a knowing that there is no element that may be denied to you.  You also hold the knowing that there is no right or wrong.  This provides you, in spite of your belief systems, a very strong motivation to move into areas that are denied to you as resulting of your belief systems.

This is not to say that your belief systems have not limited you within many areas and also within your sexual orientations, for you also hold fearfulness of damnation of your immortal souls, that you may enter areas that cross the line of taboo and this may not be acceptable.  But you enter now into information and a knowledge that there is no limitation for yourselves, and there is no area that is unacceptable for your experience.

You have also been told that pleasure is good.  It provides you with an ease within your value fulfillment.  You may be accomplishing your value fulfillment without pleasure, but in moving in the direction of pleasure you accomplish your value fulfillment with less thickness.  (Humorously)  Therefore, you may all engage within an orgy, indulge yourselves with pleasure, and accomplish your value fulfillment with much less thickness!  (Grinning, and much laughter)

HELEN:  Alright!

DAVID:  So what about sexual diseases incorporated in things like orgies and people getting other people's diseases by sexually being promiscuous, so to speak?  I know that be a belief systems, I guess, but....

ELIAS:  Sexual diseases are generated by belief systems.  Just as you may create any dis-ease within you which is influenced by your belief systems and your own issues that you hold, you may also be creating dis-ease within areas of sexuality.  As you DO hold religious belief systems that suggest to you that sexual activity is not acceptable, you create dis-ease to be reinforcing of these belief systems.

DAVID:  This becomes a vicious circle with regards ... like AIDS.  A person will say, "I'm not going to get AIDS," and get it.

ELIAS:  Although as I have expressed to you, at times certain dis-ease(s), as with AIDS, are not merely influenced by belief systems.  These are epidemics which are created as a mass statement.  Although individually each individual creates this dis-ease within themselves for their own reasons and are influenced by their own individual belief systems, en masse there is another reason for the creation of this dis-ease.

DAVID:  So our other physical focuses, you say, are affecting of each other.  Is it correct to say that in two of mine that I recalled vividly in a dream, one where I was a high-class prostitute of a period where then or there it wasn't considered like prostitution is today ... I was actually a high priestess.  This was a vivid dream that I connected to as one of my focuses.  Was this correct?  (Elias nods)  And another one also was involved purely as a focus of sexual experience that bleeds through.  Would it be correct in affecting of this focus?

ELIAS:  All of your focuses are influencing of all of your focuses.  As I have stated, at times certain focuses may be more influencing of other focuses.  Now; I may also express to you that another focus may NOT be more influencing, but YOU may choose to be drawing energy from another focus to be reinforcing of your focus presently and your belief systems within this focus.

DAVID:  Okay.  So do we all in this room have focuses presently going on that are very sexual oriented?

ELIAS:  Yes ... as is this one!  (Grinning)

DAVID:  Right; but whereas some people in this room would probably choose to believe that they are walking the "path of righteousness," so to speak.  Therefore, they would not think of themselves as being promiscuous, yet another focus of theirs would be promiscuous.

ELIAS:  This is correct, but your mere existence within this physical focus places you in the experience of being a sexual being regardless of your actions.  Your thought processes magnate to your sexuality.  Your physical feelings reflect this regardless of your actions.

DAVID:  Okay.  If an individual experiences what they call impotency, a doctor would say that's a problem with their psychological imbalance or chemical imbalance.  What is impotency?

ELIAS:  This also is an action influenced by your belief systems.  In lack of acceptance of self, an individual may image this with this action of impotency in not believing that they are worthy and imaging a lack of what you term to be "performance," for they hold very strong issues and belief systems in the area of lack of acceptance of self and duplicity, and they may image this in this manner.

DAVID:  So for example, body consciousness is involved.  The mind may say, "I want a woman," but the body may say, "No, it's a man I want."  Therefore, they fear impotency, and that mirrors conflict between the conscious mind wanting it and the body consciousness ... do you know what I'm saying?

ELIAS:  It may be at times.  This is not a rule.  For the most part, individuals experiencing this situation experience this as they create an instruction to the body consciousness to be not performing in its most intimate fashion, for the individual holds a great lack of acceptance of self and may not be intimate with self.

HELEN:  So that would be the same with an orgasm?  Like if you have a hard time having an orgasm, that's lack of acceptance of self?

ELIAS:  Correct.  You do not allow yourself to share with another individual; which as I have expressed, this is the physical mirror action of the interconnectedness of essence, and you do not allow yourself to engage in this action and share physically with another individual and loosen your hold upon your separation, for you do not accept yourself.  Therefore, this creates a situation of fearfulness.  If you are not accepting of self, you shall be guarded.  You shall limit yourself, for you shall also not accept that another individual shall be accepting of you.

You hold very DEEP belief systems in these areas.  You guard yourselves very carefully.  You hold to your individual energies very carefully and very seriously, for you hold very strong belief systems of hurtfulness.  You also hold very strong belief systems in what you THINK of as love.  You do not "give away" love and you do not receive love easily, for this is an element to be guarded, and if mistreated it appears to be extremely hurtful.  Better not to engage this area than to engage the hurtfulness.

I express to you, you do not GIVE love.  You do not RECEIVE love.  You do not ENGAGE love.  You merely experience.  It merely is.  It is not an entity.  It is not a thing that you may pass to each other.  It is a state of being, and in it there is no hurtfulness.  It is merely your belief systems that create the illusion of hurtfulness, although within your belief systems and your feelings, your emotions within this dimension, it is reality of this hurtfulness.  You do FEEL this, but this is dictated by your belief systems.  You have created many situations in the area of your sexuality, in limiting yourselves with regard to your belief systems.

DAVID:  Is it true to say that all men and women carry homosexual tendencies with them in this focus now?

ELIAS:  No.  Each focus has created a choice for that experience.  If you are choosing to be engaging as homosexual, this shall be your choice for that experience within that focus. If you are choosing not to be engaging homosexually and you are choosing to be experiencing merely within male or female, this also shall be your experience.  In actuality, homosexuality is an incorrect terminology for this "other" focus.   This be the reason that I have expressed at the onset of these sessions that you choose to manifest as male, female, or other, for you are not choosing to be homosexual.  You are choosing NOT to be aligning singularly with female or male gender and sexuality.

RETA:   At one time didn't you go as far as to say that your practice of your sexual orientation could be non-practice, and that would be your homosexual?  Not having desire for female or male, but just going through life without a push for a sexual desire, and that would be non-sexual?  Like maybe a monk or a person who ... it isn't their prime focus in life.  That's just something that they happen to be.

ELIAS:  Incorrect.  This also is a choice as influenced by belief systems.  The individuals are not manifest into this physical dimension without sexual orientation.  They choose to DENY their sexual orientation through an influence of their belief systems, believing that the lack or denial of sexual activity or orientation is more spiritual; the denial of the flesh.  These are merely belief systems that you have created.  Why create a sexual dimension and deny your experience?

RETA:   Well, I guess it's just another choice!

ELIAS:  Correct.

RETA:   But then that being one side of it, and the other side could be completely, openly homosexual.  I mean, there's all the varieties in between.  It's not ... that "other," to me, takes a lot of space.

ELIAS:  Yes.

RETA:   Not female, not male, but that "other."  You could be from one range to the another in that particular....

ELIAS:  You are quite correct.  Some individuals choose to manifest within this particular dimension within a focus creating genitalia of both!

RETA:   Yes, right.  And some of them want to be very open about it, and some of them just go through their life and that's just part of them and they don't have to be.

ELIAS:  This is a dictate of their belief systems.

CATHY:  What about people that are ... say someone is born a man and always felt they were a woman, and then when they're forty they go through all these changes to become a woman?

ELIAS:  This be their choice also.  Just as you may alter any element within your focus as any moment, you may also alter your sexual orientation and choose within a focus to change.

CATHY:  That puts these people in the "other" category, or no?


CATHY:  No.  They're not, because if you're in the "other" category, that's where you are.

ELIAS:  Correct.

VICKI:  So you could do the male and the female thing in one focus?

ELIAS:  Correct.

VICKI:  Then you'd only have to come here twice!  (Laughter)

ELIAS:  (Grinning)  Ah!  Cheating!  (Laughter)

HELEN:  So is bisexual "other?"

ELIAS:  Yes, at times.  At times it is not "other," for an individual may be experiencing one sexual orientation or another, and merely CHOOSES to be engaging within sexual activity of more variety.

HELEN:  Experimentation.

ELIAS:  Experience!

NORM:   Is this going to continue in the shift?

ELIAS:  It be your choice!

NORM:   No, I mean the three ... I'm curious again.  Why is there such a rule that you have to be male, female, or homosexual?

ELIAS:  It is not a rule!  It is a CHOICE.  It is an agreement that you have chosen, to be creating this particular one dimension with this sexual orientation.  Therefore, if choosing within essence to be entering into the participation of this particular physical focus, you also choose to be agreeing to the manifestation of three sexual orientations, therefore allowing yourself the spectrum of experience of the sexual orientation within this particular dimension.

NORM:   Why?  (Somebody starts to say something)  No, why??  I mean, it wouldn't HAVE to be!

ELIAS:  (Intently)  You hold countless -- underline -- countless physical dimensions.  Each of them hold guidelines.  It matters not that you choose to enter guidelines into this one dimension, for you hold all other experiences within all other dimensions.  This is what you have created within this ONE dimension.

NORM:   It seems like a constraint, and I don't like constraints!

ELIAS:  You are not constrained, for you are experiencing every other possible experience!

NORM:   I want them all!

ELIAS:  You have them!  (Laughter)

RETA:   Would be it outlandish to ask you, like for instance in maybe another dimension, what they have chosen for, I guess, the equivalent of re-population?

ELIAS:  It holds no bearing to you within this physical focus.

RETA:   I know that, but I was just curious about another dimension.

ELIAS:  (Grinning)  If you hold curiosity you may investigate and you may view yourself, although you may not understand and it shall hold no meaning to you within this dimension!

VICKI:  I have a question regarding something David was talking about ... about if you consciously think to yourself that you want to have sex with a woman, but your body feels a draw to have sex with a man, or something like that.  My question is, is that possible, that you would subjectively direct your body consciousness to argue with you?  Does that make sense?

ELIAS:  You subjectively instruct your body consciousness to be conflicting with you continuously!  If you were not, you would not experience pain!  This be no different.  You are holding to energy.  You are not accepting of self and you are responding to your belief systems.  Therefore, you may be creating in this area of sexuality.  It is no different than your creation of a dis-ease.  It is merely directed specifically.  The belief systems are specific, and are involved with sexual belief systems.  You shall not be creating of these types of actions without holding sexual belief systems that are influencing.  You may create many dis-ease(s) and the belief systems involved may have no thing involving sexuality, but you will not be creating of sexual dis-ease or dysfunction without holding belief systems in the areas of sexuality that are limiting of you.

HELEN:  So you're saying, anyone that has any type of sexual disease holds belief systems that are limiting of their sexual experience?

ELIAS:  Correct, and they are also holding to fearfulness within these belief systems.

DAVID:  So would sexual experience be a good way of releasing many of these geysers that we hold within ourselves?

ELIAS:  This be another belief system that you hold!  (Laughter)  You hold belief systems in regard to sexual activity as an "energy release."

VICKI:  But if we believe it, it's true, right?

ELIAS:  You are not releasing energy.

VICKI:  But you could be releasing your own stress or confusion or whatever.

ELIAS:  Correct.

DAVID:  So it's healthy, in that area!  Better than going to a doctor and getting a pill!

ELIAS:  I express to you that in your belief systems of health, your sexual activity within this dimension is quite healthy, and the denial of such is quite limiting!

DAVID:  I agree!  (Laughter)

ELIAS:  You also have created your sexual activity as pleasurable.  Therefore, it holds more of an attraction to you!

DAVID:  It's also good for the imagination!

ELIAS:  If you are allowing.

DAVID:  For expanding the imagination?

ELIAS:  If you are allowing.  I shall express to you that this activity also may be quite enlightening to you in what you view to be your spirituality, for there are more elements involved with this activity than you allow yourselves to experience.  If you are opening within your awareness and consciousness, you may also use this activity to manipulate your awareness and to be a vehicle, so to speak, for experiencing other elements of consciousness.

NORM:   Ah!  A method!

ELIAS:  Ah!  A method!  (Grinning)

DAVID:  As in taking you past the physical and allowing yourself to go into other areas other than the physical?  For example, I believe I've gone there with another person sexually.  I've gone past the physical feeling of the sexual experience and experienced deeper and further.  Is that sort of similar to what you're saying?

ELIAS:  In a manner of speaking.

NORM:   The physiological reaction that occurs in the brain, does that cause or is that because of this spiritual interaction?  For example, a hormone release then that occurs.  I think that's what I'm talking about, in that it releases energy and nervousness.

ELIAS:  The physical does not create the spiritual.  The physical does not create the subjective.  The subjective creates the response, and is directing of the response within the body consciousness.

We shall break, and you may continue with your questioning.

BREAK   7:54 PM
RESUME  8:23 PM (Time was eight seconds)

Vic's note:  The conversation during the break was fascinating -- too bad we don't have it on tape!  Here's one thing we do have on tape:

MARY:   Just make sure you don't ask any questions for me 'cause I'd rather not know!  (Her last comment before resuming)

ELIAS:  Continuing.

DENNIS: I have a general question.  I've noticed that -- it's kind of a two-part question -- that if all your focuses that you have ... you experience let's say a little bit of everything within these focuses.  How come in this society now, there seems to be some cases that people are not accepting of alternative lifestyles, so to speak?  They're not accepting of someone who is homosexual or transsexual or a transvestite, to the point that they want to do violence against these people for the simple reason that they don't agree with what they are.  The second part of that is, it seems to me now, because I have a teenager, that kids his age and my daughter's age tend to be more accepting of alternative lifestyles, and I was wondering if that's part of the shift that's happening?

ELIAS:  Correct.

DENNIS: And then the other part basically is, why are people drawn so much to violence against someone because of what their sexual orientation is?

ELIAS:  This would be the choice of the individual focus.  Although you are influenced and draw energy from all of your other focuses, as I have stated previously, that energy is reformed to be beneficial to you within this particular focus and redirects itself to be in alignment with your individual intent.

There are some individuals, many individuals, that choose within their focus to be unaccepting and intolerant within their experience.  They are indulging their belief systems.  These individuals shall be those that experience more trauma within the action of this shift, individuals that hold so very tightly to their belief systems and create much intolerance, for this is in direct contradiction to the action of this shift.

DAVID:  What about somebody who is heterosexual, but in their dream state has a homosexual dream experience?

ELIAS:  This merely be imagery that an individual may offer to themselves in subjective activity, in recognition that there is no incorrectness within this action.

DAVID:  So they don't necessarily have to wake up and think they had a nightmare?!

ELIAS:  Although they may, (laughter) as their belief systems begin to be kicking in!  (Grinning)

I have stated to you previously that within your dream state you are allowing your subjective activity in imagery, and you relax your belief systems within your subjective awareness.  This is not to say that you do not HOLD belief systems subjectively within this dimension, but you allow a relaxation of these belief systems.  Therefore, you may engage in more activities within your dream state than you may allow yourself within your objective waking state.

DAVID:  So with regards fragmentation, supposing I met somebody who was an aspect of Mylo and I was drawn to them sexually.  That is possible, to have like a sexual encounter with your own essence, so to speak?

ELIAS:  Essence incest!  (Laughter)

DAVID:  It happens, yeah?

ELIAS:  Quite!

HELEN:  Is sexual attraction to another person ... is that purely a physical thing?

ELIAS:  No.  You attract yourself or you draw yourself to another individual for many reasons.  Your physical form does not respond to ANYTHING without direction from your subjective awareness. Therefore, there are many reasons that you may be what you term "physically attracted" to another individual, but these attractions are also influenced by your belief systems.  You may view two individuals that may present themselves in very much the same manner.  One you shall attract yourself to and the other you may not, for you hold belief systems that you do not even recognize of what is acceptable to you.

HELEN:  Physically?

ELIAS:  Correct.

VICKI:  So that would have to do with your belief systems about other people's physical appearance and what you believe you're attracted to?

ELIAS:  Correct, and also your belief systems of what you shall attract yourself to within personality type.

HELEN:  Aren't we more compatible with certain personality types?

ELIAS:  At times, but if you are not speaking of counterpart actions and you are not engaging counterpart actions, your belief systems dictate to you where you shall be attracted.

HELEN:  Without belief systems, would we have sexual attraction for everyone?

ELIAS:  Not necessarily.  You may not within opposite counterparts.

VICKI:  Other than that?

ELIAS:  Other than opposite counterpart action, you would not be creating distinctions.

HELEN:  What are counterparts?  That's probably something that I should look up and investigate myself.  (Elias grins and nods)  Okay!

DAVID:  So is there some kind of link between a son marrying a woman that reminds him of and looks like his mother, in regards to sexual attraction to their mother that they would never express in that link?

ELIAS:  This would be belief systems also.

DAVID:  Right, but what is the link between a man marrying a woman because there's that attraction that reminds him subjectively of his mother, sexually and physically?

ELIAS:  For you hold belief systems that the role of the mother is nurturing.  Therefore, you may also at times attract yourself to another individual that displays this resemblance.

VICKI:  I'd like to ask a couple of questions about orgasms.  In my experience, I have had some orgasms that were a whole lot more intense than your run-of-the-mill orgasm, so to speak, (laughter) and I'm curious about that.  Why is there a really great intensity within what appears to me to be a minority of orgasms?

ELIAS:  There may be different reasonings for this action.  At times, very many times, this may be a result of an imbalance within your energy centers.

VICKI:  The intensity?

ELIAS:  Correct.  If your energy centers are all rotating and radiating within harmony to each other and you are within balance, so to speak, the intensity of your experience shall be greater.

VICKI:  Hmm.  Well, I guess if that's the case, my energy centers haven't been in balance most of MY life!  (We all crack up)

HELEN:  Mine either, Vicki! It's all right, honey.  You're not alone!  (Thanks, Helen!  It's great to not be alone!)

ELIAS:  This is not the ONLY reason, but it IS a reason that is most common, for as you are balancing of your energy centers you are also allowing a free flow of energy throughout your physical form.  Therefore, you create more of an intensity within your physical responses, but you may also hold different reasons.  You may be choosing to engage an action of sexual intercourse, but you are merely engaging the action and not truly choosing to be engaging this action.

VICKI:  In my experience, the times I have had some very intense orgasms have been with people that I have a very great amount of feeling for emotionally.  I've never had that experience with just a casual sexual encounter, say.

ELIAS:  This is also an influence of belief systems.  Your belief systems are quite influencing of your performance, so to speak, in sexual activities, and there are very many belief systems that may be influencing of your action within this area or your limitations within this area.  (Pause)

HELEN:  Why is it that men seem to achieve orgasm easier than women?  Is that a belief system, that we just believe that, or is it a physical fact?

ELIAS:  It is a combination of physical actions and belief systems; more of belief systems, for this is influencing of the physical actions.  As you ARE sexually oriented and your entire physical dimension is based upon sexual orientation and emotion, all that you do and all of your belief systems are influencing of these areas.  Therefore, they become quite complex.  There are many, many belief systems that may be influencing.  This may be with males AND females.

You hold a belief system that it is more difficult for females to be achieving sexual orgasm.  You do not hold the same appendages.  Therefore, within your belief systems, one is viewed as more pronounced.  It is not, but within your belief systems it is viewed in this manner, therefore more easily accessible.  It is also believed that the female need be achieving an emotional state to be sexually excited.  This also is a belief system.  It is unnecessary, but you believe this.  Therefore, you set into motion the creation of this and it is reinforced by BOTH sexual orientations, male and female.  You allow for males the permission to engage within sexual activity without emotional attachments or emotional preparation.  Therefore, they allow themselves more freedom within this action.

You have created many belief systems for centuries within religious elements, viewing the female as sacred, therefore more in alignment with self-denial.  The males are the barbarians, the conquerors.  Therefore, they allow themselves and YOU allow them more freedom, for this is in alignment with the mass belief systems.  The females are fragile.  They are to be held in reverence.  They are the mothers.  Therefore, they are not allowed this freedom.  Your role is not to be experiencing pleasure.  Your role is to be procreating.  This is a direct dictate of your belief systems.  (Humorously)  And although within this very advanced time framework that you are occupying presently you hold such liberation, you continue to hold these belief systems underlyingly and they continue to be influencing!

HELEN:  Of your sexual experience?

ELIAS:  Correct.

DAVID:  Outside of physical focus, does essence continue to have some kind of intimacy with another essence?  Like for example, I know it's not the same, but say yourself and Paul.  There's a closeness there.

ELIAS:  In the manner of your thought processes within physical focus, there is NO comparison.

DAVID:  But there is some form of intimacy?

ELIAS:  It is NOT the same.  It is very far removed from any thought process that you hold within physical focus.

DAVID:  Would you say, in terms of how I think of it then, that it is better?

ELIAS:  It is different.

DAVID:  But it exists?

ELIAS:  NOT in the manner of your thought processes.

DAVID:  But in some other manner?

ELIAS:  NOT in the manner of your thought processes, no!  (Laughter)  It would be quite distorting and inaccurate for me to express this to you in ANY manner of your thought processes.

DAVID:  I just want to make sure that if I don't get it in this life, I want to make sure that I'm going to find it!  (Laughter)

ELIAS:  In the manner of your thought processes, you shall not find it if you do not find it within this focus!  (Grinning)

DAVID:  (Laughing)  Okay!

NORM:   You say that the sexual orientations in this dimension are mirrors of elements in the essence world.  Would I be able to extend that to the biological world, where there's every diversity that you can imagine in regard to sexual orientation?  For example, plants can have both male and female parts, and they can be male at one time and change to female at another, and so on and so forth.  All of that is elements of ... I mean, that great huge diversity would then be a mirroring of, partially, what essence can experience?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Interesting!

RETA:   Have you ever noticed that a lot of people, in their imagery to be attractive to another person, greatly find themselves in that other person?  If you sit and watch couples going by, for instance, even their facial expressions can be a lot the same.  I think we're attracted to ourselves in a lot of instances of physical attraction, and it may be the same way in a subjective way.

ELIAS:  At times, but this would not be a rule.  You build quite elaborations around your sexual movements.  You have even created ritual within your creatures for the display of your sexuality.

DAVID:  How about women who, especially today, are lining up to get boob jobs?  (Laughter)  You know, breast implants?  For THEIR ears!  I know it's a belief system, but I think they need to hear that!

ELIAS:  It IS a belief system that you need to be adorning yourselves to be creating a more attractive "package," but throughout your history you have indulged yourselves in adorning to be more pleasing to each other visually.  This be also part of your rituals, which you also mirror within your creation of your creatures and THEIR rituals to each other and their adornments that they display to each other for the same reason.

DAVID:  So why are we attracted more so to beauty than someone who you'd call a "plain jane," since the beginning of time?

ELIAS:  For you DO attract yourself to beauty.  You CREATE beauty, within this dimension, all about you.  You are quite enamored with physical creations and their aesthetic value.

DAVID:  But we put so much importance on that beauty, compared to someone who isn't beautiful, so to speak.

ELIAS:  Quite!  It is part of your creation within this physical dimension.  Individuals may choose a particular focus to NOT be creating physical beauty, or what you term to be deformities, for the experience of not aligning with your officially accepted reality.

DAVID:  Is sex aligned more with Zuli?


NORM:   In the shift, are we going to be able to improve our sexual capabilities?

ELIAS:  If you are so choosing!  (Grinning)

NORM:   I mean, for example, say that I want to be able to produce a perfume that attracts more so than I do now!  I could do that, right?

ELIAS:  If you are so choosing.  It is merely dependent upon the direction of your attention.

DAVID:  Is there an odor that is attractive that we're not aware of when somebody is feeling sexual, something that is emitted from our bodies?

ELIAS:  At times, but this also is dependent upon your creations and your belief systems.  Certain individuals, certain cultures DO create physical emissions of odor that they believe to be attracting, and this enters into THEIR rituals.  But within certain other cultures, such as your own, you do not create this situation, although you engage in artificial odors.  (Grinning)

DAVID:  What we term to be a bit more prettier-smelling than natural body odor.

ELIAS:  Correct, but this is also an element of your belief systems.  Within the area of sexual rituals and activity, all of your senses are engaged.  Therefore, your sense of smell also is affected.

HELEN:  Heightened?

ELIAS:  Correct.

NORM:   Using our nine senses that will become more aware, we will be able to determine the correct activity to get the appropriate response in the future better than we do today then, right?  (Elias pauses, eyes closed, and then exhibits a crooked smile, and we all crack up)

ELIAS:  "The correct response better than you do today."  Incorrect!  For there is no "correct response!"

NORM:   Well, to satisfy the desire for the correct ... for the experience of the other one.

ELIAS:  The individual shall have the experience that they create!  You are not creating their experience for them!

NORM:   But there are some intersections, interactions?

ELIAS:  There is intersection and there is interaction, but the individual shall create the experience that they choose to be creating.

NORM:   I will not be able to use those senses as a tool, then?

ELIAS:  You may use your senses NOW as a tool to be more intuitively aware of another individual, but this shall not be creating of THEIR experience!  They shall create their own experience!

(Humorously)  Although it may be beneficial for you to engage your senses -- your inner senses -- and your intuition NOW, for if your partner is not in agreement with you and is not in compliance with you, you shall know and disengage your activity!  (Grinning)

DAVID:  Without belief systems in the sexual area, would we then naturally respond to our sexual responses the same way that animals do to each other?

ELIAS:  Yes.

DENNIS: What about the individual that is attracted ... because when you think about sexuality in terms of being intimate with someone, sharing private personal moments or whatever with someone, what about the person that has a sexual fetish?  They can only be attracted sexually to a woman's feet, or their elbow.  (Laughter)  Is that also a belief system?  Because some people can't function sexually without going to the toes, so to speak.  I'm curious about that.

ELIAS:  This would also be a choice for experience, moving outside of the officially accepted reality and moving outside of the officially accepted mass belief systems.  (Pause)

VICKI:  I have a question if no one else does. It seems like, in this society anyway, we create more conflict around this concept of sex than we do almost anything else.  Our whole lives, we create conflict around sex.  So my question is, if this is one of the reasons we choose this experience is for this sexual experience, why do we create so much conflict over why we came here in the first place?

ELIAS:  For you have developed many belief systems in this area also.

VICKI:  Well, it gets confusing to me.  To go back to this concept of pleasure, and if you indulge yourself in pleasure you're creating less of a thickness ...

ELIAS:  Correct.

VICKI:  ... and fulfilling your value more effortlessly ...

ELIAS:  Correct.

VICKI:  ... it seems like we would naturally gravitate towards that within why we chose this physical dimension.

ELIAS:  You DO naturally gravitate towards these elements, but you also have created separation, and in this you have developed more and more belief systems.

VICKI:  I kind of understand the affectingness of the belief systems, but to take another physical pleasure for an example, eating is a very pleasurable experience in this focus too.  It's not how we've created this focus, to come here mostly to eat, not in the manner that you say that part of the reason we choose this is for a sexual experience, but we don't create near the conflict around eating or other physical pleasures as we do around the sexual experience.

ELIAS:  Ah, but you do!  (Other people murmur agreement)

VICKI:  Well, maybe I just don't see it that way.

ELIAS:  Within YOUR belief systems you do not create as much conflict or you do not view as much conflict, but within mass you DO create much conflict in many other areas.

VICKI:  So this would just be a perception on my part, is what you're saying, that we create more conflict around this concept of sex than we do anything?

ELIAS:  Correct.  You create more conflict around the concept of pleasure in all of its forms than you do with any other element, and this is reinforcing of your issues of duplicity and the nobleness of the denial of the flesh.

VICKI:  Okay, I just have one other quick question about this concept of pleasure, from the last time we all talked about it.  We were talking about it in terms of altering one's consciousness with alcohol and/or drug use.  It's confusing to me that if you take these substances and it's pleasurable to you, you're creating less of a thickness for yourself.  At the same time, these particular types of substances create a thickness in your reality, and I don't really understand that part of it.

ELIAS:  They create a thickness, for you hold belief systems and you allow yourselves to be influenced by the belief systems.  If you are not allowing yourself to be influenced by the belief systems, then they do not create a thickness; but you ARE very influenced by your belief systems, and you are influenced by the belief systems of the masses, by other individuals.  This creates a conflict within the individual.  They are conflicting within themselves, for they are struggling within the battling of two opposing belief systems.  THIS creates a thickness.  The action itself does not IF you are accepting that pleasure is acceptable and that pleasure creates less of a thickness within accomplishing your value fulfillment, and IF you are accepting that no substance shall be hurtful to you.  It is merely a belief system.

VICKI:  So does that mean that if I take substances and I have accepted the belief system that they create a thickness and so they don't create a thickness for me any more, do I still experience the physical effects of that substance?

ELIAS:  If you are choosing, yes.

VICKI:  But it will not create a thickness in my reality in the terms that you're talking about?

ELIAS:  Correct. The thickness occurs with the action of the opposing belief systems; the battling within the individual.   This may occur also as you are moving in the direction of subjective movement into an acceptance of certain belief systems and actions and practices.  Objectively, you may be creating of conflict temporarily, for you are engaging a battle between the mass belief systems and the movement that you are engaging to be accepting of a belief system.

VICKI:  So with all of the religious belief systems that we hold regarding sex, quite often would we then, when we engage sex, be creating this same thickness, this same battling?

ELIAS:  At times.  This be why you create so many difficulties in this area.  As I have stated, there are very many reasons why you create dis-ease/dysfunction within the area of your sexual activity, all of which are very influenced by your belief systems.

VICKI:  Okay, thank you.

Vic's note:  Now, what I get from this is that the reason we create so much conflict around sex is mostly because of religious beliefs.  Why didn't he just answer my question initially? is my question!

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